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Charlotte wrote on: “I have Venus in Pisces (in the 7th), Mars in Sadge. I want affection and love. I get it by going to bars and being gregarious, off-the-cuff, flirtatiously feisty. Wow have I got myself a reputation in a small town like this. Yowza.” I was attracted to this writing and it made me think about the soldier. Charlotte, this is no remark or judgment on you whatsoever, I just like your writing. It gives a picture of a flirtatious woman is all and I made me wonder how he would react if he ran into you and you ran into him.

I wound up asking him and his answer surprised me but before I did I got thinking about this. Say a man blows off a flirtatious woman so as not to have trouble with his wife or girlfriend? Is that considered “pussy whipped?” And what if he does not blow her off – flirts back. We’re talking about attached men, here. Does that make him a dog? So here’s the question: Just exactly what is a good (loyal) man (who is attached) supposed to do when he encounters a flirtatious woman? Msgeminirisin it’s a different question.

I am talking about a man who does not want to sleep with the woman. Lots of men meet women like this and do have no interest in sleeping with them. I am quite sure because the soldier was able to not only tell me how he handles the situation but also how a host of other men handle – their techniques.

He did however, first say that a lot of men would try to “fuck her if she could be fucked”. But then he went on to explain what men who don’t want to fuck do and it was elaborate! There are degrees of flirting I think. You can be friendly flirty with no real intent and you can drop subtle hints that you are NOT going to act on that flirtation.

I think this is a serious shades of gray kind of question and the answer for any specific man (or woman for that matter) depends on his partner’s comfort level. I don’t mind my man flirting one bit because I have no doubt who he’s going home with. If you aren’t married to a 7th house Gemini sun/Jupiter/Mercury, you might want to find out exactly what crosses the line for YOUR woman (or man). My man has sadge rising and he flirts with everyone. Recently he hugged the waitress and I got up and walked out and he caught hell from me. In my opinion, for me, it’s fine if it’s just simple banter, but touching is WAY out of bounds. Anything that makes the woman think there might be more than flirting is NOT okay, whether he’d go farther or not.

He hasn’t done anything like that since. If I’m not around I’d hope they’d honor my comfort level but if not I don’t want to know about it. And if I hear about it (small town) they’d catch hell whether I was there or not. Depends on the dude—looking at the guys I’ve known, some will sleep with her, some will reject her with venomous judgement in their eyes (Scorpio, Pluto types with girlfriends), some will flirt and then tell her they have gfs so “she” can decide- you know, cus it’s her deal- not theirs, right? And some will just dance with her and go homeI think your definition of what a “good” man would do depends on your definition of “good,” and I don’t know if most ppl.

Know their definition unless it’s happened to them. I’ve never had a guy, so I don’t completely know what “good” is but I’m leaning toward the Scorpios- as long as they don’t call her a whore. I can never be with a guy like that! This is the second time a comment of mine has made an appearance on the Elsa blog and Jeeze, how flattered am I?! Here is my (very limited) experience.

In a bar, no one is married. I always feel like, if they’re flirting with me back, they’re available. Now, don’t take this as me saying I would do the nassstay with a married or attached man, or just a man as he presented himself, I would not. Personally, I will flirt till the cows come home but as soon as he starts touching me or hinting he wants something more, I’m off like a light.

So maybe I’m not a slutjust a tease. Men and women flirt, it’s what they do. In my experience, sometimes all they wanna do is prove they still got it.

Same with women. We all want to know we’re still sexually attractive to the opposite sex. I know the boundaries of my self-respect. Honestly though, I turn 23 tomorrow. I’m still learning this stuff.

I like the men who love to flirt back, which, in my experience, ALL of them do. Flirting is an art. Some men, married or otherwise, don’t understand that and take it to the level of vulgarity. Play with me, don’t molest me. My focus when I wrote this was not on the woman. Judging her or anything. What interested me was the dilemma this creates for the disinterested man.

It turns out (via the soldier) that men know all about these situations and how you and and should get out of them. For example, you CAN’T out and out reject the woman because of the “hell hath no fury like a woman scorned” If you do that, the woman will be gunning for you.

She will get your ass! So you have to have other ways.

He went on to outline a few of them it was clear men know this stuff. For example, the old ‘get her to break up with you.” His brother (who obnoxious) will start slobbering on himself. The soldier starts talking about his 1914 Volkswagon and his the job as a janitor he has to get to. They don’t want the woman pissed off, see? He explains, a man bothering you, you can tell him to “carry ass”. But you can’t tell a woman that because you can’t back it up. “Tell a man to carry ass, if he doesn’t do it, then you kick his ass.

Tell a woman to carry ass and she doesn’t do it, there is nothing you can do! And she’s going to be pissed off and she is going to get you one way or the other.” She went on to say the gal might tell your wife or gf she slept with you this kind of stuff so he just makes himself undesirable no one gets their feelings hurt and hell breaks loose. His brother starts spilling food down his shirt 🙂. I think the thing that bothers me about flirty women is that I wish I could be more laid back or less emotional in little moments myself-the horny part of me wants to be laissez faire about going out, flirting and so on—but I usually come off as too intense or into “serious” stuff when I flirt, which um, is kind of true LOL. I’m probably more angry at the lower level of sensitivity since mine stresses me out in bar type situations. As long as you’re not knowingly hurting anyone or yourself, Charlotte, you have a right to do what feels good to you. I’m also only 24 so I have a lot left to process.

I have seen other men (in my past, as a bartender) buy the girl and drink and then leave. That is another common out. People who think all men want to get in a bed with a flirty girl are out of their mind. There are loyal men who are in a bar.

There are also men who are in love just lost a love and deep in despair and mourning. There is a man who comes off a relationship and goes right back out but someone of them don’t want anything to do with dating anyone for many many months.

I have known men who take 6 months to a year to recover from a break up and there is just no way they have any desire to flirt and the fact is, a woman like this does put them in a position where they need a maneuver. This past Saturday I celebrated one of my friend’s birthday at a nice new bar here in town. She invited a girl she met last year in one of her college classes; a young, drop-dead gorgeous, bangin’ body girl I tell ya. She got completely shit-faced (to the embarassment of the rest of us!)and was gropping a random man all night. If I hadn’t witnessed it myself, I would have NEVER believed that any man with a pulse could resist her advances.

He was completely annoyed and kept turning his face away from her when she was clearly trying to make out with him. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

I can sort of relate to Sonah22, I spent a lot of time being jealous of flirty girls (in my EARLY twenties, which was not too long ago), not because I thought they were audacious, but because I secretly wished I could be so confident around male energy. I have that Cappy moon that kind of made me self-conscious I guess, and there was some sort of blockage(?) between my inner flirt and it’s frution. Over the past few years I’ve been making an effort to be more flirty which feels good because I am naturally a friendly person, and I think friendly/flirty is my true disposition.

I’m married so I keep it really light, and I trust myself completely. Maybe you could start small Sonah22 😉.

Another interesting postmy husband and I have had this discussion before. He has oftened had women “flirt” with himhe travels quite a bit for business and goes to trivia night with our two sons whom are 18 and 25 and they have been witness to this too, which they think is funny because my husband is the quiet, silent type. Virgo, with rising Scorpio and 9 out of ten times he doesn’t even realize he is being flirted with which I think is funny. He is old-fashioned in his thinking and so he tells me that once he realizes what is going on he says,”you seem like a real nice lady and I want to tell you that I am married and you would probably be better off talking to someone else who would readily be charmed by you and your gracious ways.” He really talks like this and it is one of the qualities I find so endearing in him. He is uncomfortable at times with overtures and affection.

He is Moon in Gemini so he is much more stimulated by intellectual talk. I am, on the other hand more gregarious and can be very charming. But there is no agenda in mind.I just like to make people feel good, share a little joy. My husband has mentioned how surprised he has been at the outright boldness and assertiveness of at least one particular woman and it embarrassed him. This comes from a man that in 26 years with has never called me an ill namehe is just not like that. Now with men, if someone is an asshole.he has no problem.

I agree that some men do not like heavy flirting and also that not all men are desperate to take a girl home. I say this because I have always been an incorrigible flirt and now that I am older (thirties) I can see that some men don’t actually like it if you are too seemingly available. There is a belief that all men will sleep with anything available (any hole is a goal etc) but I do think that like women all men are different, and that there are men who are in love and want to be faithful. I think lighthearted banter is fine as long as it is clear that is all it is. Certainly not in front of the partner though – I find that disrespectful. In my early twenties I used to flirt outrageously in front of my boyfriend – I had the errroneous belief that it showed him I was attractive and he was luckyhe just thought I was a tart! Age is a fine thing.

I’m with all those who say flirting is an art. You can also tell when a good flirt meets another good flirt – they just bounce off each other and the verbal play tends to be delightful. Conny I have Venus-Saturn-Neptune too, but my Venus is in Gemini and flirting to me is as natural as breathing. My son has a Libra Moon sextile Venus and the kid is a natural flirt, has been from when he was 4 months old.

This stuff is fairly hard-wired. My husband is very playful, he wants to be polite and he has a mischievous streak, so if someone flirted with him I think he’d play back but he wouldn’t touch them. I can’t see him rejecting anyone outright – he wouldn’t want to hurt their feelings or piss them off.

Men are attracted to women (and vice versa) but women have an attracting power that they tend to abuse, misuse or not use in a classy way that serves them best. Seduction is definitely an art form that can be exhilerating!

I get the part about how a man needs a different approach to difuse a woman and how its easier for a woman to just blow off a guy. You never know what people might do at any given time considering the circumstances. If it is a bar setting, then someone is drinking alcohol so all bets are off!!

I have no insights on the question, but this reminds me of an Ask Metafilter thread I just read last night. The guy was on a business trip with another chick.

Falkor Dragon

They go to dinner. She picks a fancy restaurant. He tells her he has issues with his hotel, she recommends hers, she invites him up, he never shows. He has an SO that presumably he’s never mentioned to her.

He said he’s clueless about social interaction, but is “flirty” and asked if he’d led her on/was on a date. I said, hell YES, you did and you were. Don’t ask me how someone with an SO doesn’t manage to mention them in conversation for 4 hours unless you are deliberately not mentioning them. Most people love to mention “we” in conversation at the very least.

So, I guess the answer is, don’t talk about hotel rooms and do mention that you are taken. Holy moly, all ready 51 responses, lol. There is what I like to believe my husband does, which is maybe politely flirt a little, and then of course remember how much he loves me – but who the hell knows, if I am not there, and Cindy Crawford is winking at him, what the hell do I know what he does. I can only hope he respects his marriage, and most definitely does not let it go too far. I know that since I made the marital commitment, I do not even try to make eye contact with other men, because in my past, men flirted with me constantly, and I just use my body-language to shut that down. Does he do that – who knows? Third house venus conjunct uranus (scorpio)here flirting gets me through the day.

A girl I used to work with would chide me, reminding me that I had a boyfriend and how would I feel if he was doing the same thing I told her what a wise old sailor told me once “it don’t matter where you get your appetite, as long as you go home for dinner.” She gave me the dirtiest look I have ever seen, as though my personal opinions had sullied the sanctity of her relationship and pronounced in front of all our coworkers that I was “the most immoral bitch” she had ever met. What I wanna know is why do some people identify so heavily with thier sense of moral righteousness that when they encounter someone whose only crime against them is difference of opinion, they feel personally threatened and will publicly lash out? I mean really, what the hell kind of mountain of insecurities is that about? I had fun getting an answer on this from my man today – he said what he would do is disappear!

Say he had to go to the bathroom and never come back, or step away quietly to hang out with the guys in his band. How Moon-Neptune is this guy? After all these comments, I probably fall most in line with Charlotte, Lupa, and notatirem et al. Flirting is an end in itself and it makes you feel alive. (Other things that make you feel alive include loving and being honest with your SO, so you need to balance.) It is hard to lump all flirting and flirters into one category, because their underlying integrity is a great distinguisher.

If your man or woman flirts, but at the end of the day you know they have a reputation of being emotionally, physically, or whatever-kinda faithful to you? Fine with me.

If the flirter is a person who is a known cheater? Not so harmless anymore. And what exactly defines cheating is variable for every couple, but I think honesty is key. I enjoy flirting and I have Gemini and Libra. I like to keep it interesting and charming, but I do not feel good when it crosses a line, and I have been in those situations too. I’m guessing my husband would respond, but he’s always hanging out with girls and chatting with them so I don’t really think anything of it.

Now, if he acts contradictory to who he really is, then I’m be upset. There was one girl once he did act different around, he didn’t pay her attention like he does with everyone else, he paid her specific attention and was not his normal self.

Falkor Defense

That bothered me, we talked about it, and eventually she went one way in her life and we went another so no harm was done. Basically I don’t mind if he flirts or doesn’t, but if someone make him act different – then I’m on alert. Maybe I’m missing the point but if he’s not interested it seems simple enough not to flirt back. (and there are a couple really smooth ways to not flirt back in the comments already.) Whatever his reasons for not being interested are are no business of anyone else’s.

Falkor Ar

On a tangential aside: I admit to a fundamental lack of understanding on the whole possessive-partner thing. (And again, not directed at anyone specific, as I see this a lot) As in “that’s my man, back off.” I am just not wired that way, and I realize how weird it is that I’m not.